Dispatches from 'The Promise': Media Edition

by: fogiv

Sun Jul 18, 2010 at 13:23:01 PM EDT


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I've been reading Jonathan Alter's The Promise - President Obama, Year One, and have come across a number of striking passages that have led me to spend much time ruminating on the monumental challenges President Obama faces in his attempt to pilot the 'ship of state' in the tumultuous political seas of the 21st century.

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With your indulgence, I'd like to share a number of these passages in an on-going series. In particular, I'll present snippets that have resonated with me. Some are shocking, some humorous, some awe-inspiring, some infuriating, but I hope you'll find each of them as illuminating as I have.  
fogiv :: Dispatches from 'The Promise': Media Edition
One such illumination comes in the middle of page 280, characterizing the woeful state of both the U.S. media establishment and education in America:

The United States had big challenges ahead in staying competetive, and much of the media, [President Obama] thought, was clueless about what was truly important. For instance, he noted that President Lee Myong Bak of South Korea, presiding over a "very competetive" economy, has said that his biggest problem in education was that Korean parents were too demanding and were insisting on importing English teachers so their kids could learn English in first grade instead of having to wait for second grade. This is what complacent America was up against. "And then I sit down with U.S. reporters, and the question they have for me, in Asia, is, 'Have I read Sarah Palin's book?'" At this point, the president shook his head, incredulous. "True. True story."

Discuss.
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Dispatches from 'The Promise': Media Edition | 70 comments
More than anything... (2.00 / 7)
...I'm curious to see how others react to these snips, the topic they imply, and I hope we generate the kind of insightful and meandering discussions the Moose is famous for.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
I have never read palins book, nor will I. (2.00 / 11)
I have never done this before.  I am the father of fog iv.  Having taught high school, and some college, for 31 years I feel comfortable commenting on what scares the crap out of me.  We have become a nation of totally intellectually lazy people. We, most anyway, have lost the desire to question anything.  If we need an opinion it is easier to turn on rush and, if we don't like him, we can tune into ko and get get our canned opinions.  What scares me is americans acceptance of stupid and lazy people.  I am so glad I retired.
Welcome to the Moose! (2.00 / 9)
Happy to see a long time lurker finally drop a comment.  Now, in your opinion, who's the best blogger in the whole wide world?  Heh.

Love you Pop!

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt

[ Parent ]
DTOzone did a diary showing that people, when challenged with facts, (2.00 / 9)
often became more entrenched in their belief of the wrong thing.  A large part of that seems to be because it is easy to find someone who appears to be reputable to validate those beliefs.  FNC has a whole daily line-up of people who hold what most of us consider extreme views.  CNN and MSNBC give platforms to people who regularly spout nonsense (Erickson and Buchanan).  But, because they are on "news" channels they are given legitimacy.

There are a lot of people, I'd guess mostly older or certainly less exposed to different opinions, who buy into extreme notions rather easily.  We used to believe that news anchors and reporters were impartial and their sole job was to report the facts.  I'm not sure we can find too many of those anymore.

Where does someone turn to get unbiased news?  I guess the network channels may actually be the best places and ratings-wise it seems like that is where most people still get their news.  But with everything going on in the world today trying to cram a lot of information into a half an hour isn't easy.

Newspapers have so cut down on local staff they are almost completely dependent on wire services for national/international news.  I've fussed at editors at the paper where I work for iffy headlines and some questionable editing.

[ Parent ]
This is true on the left as well (2.00 / 4)
case in point, this Warren vs. Geithner dustup.

Huffington Post goes and runs a frontpage big banner headline story that Geihtner was trying to block Warren, and the only source was an unnamed source who "knows the secretary's way of thinking"

Then when faced with compelling evidence that this was not true, including Geithners deputy himself refuting it, they said he was lying and if it were true, well, Huffington Post made him change his mind.

Then this weekend, video surfaced of Warren praising Geithner, and what does someone say at GOS:

No, i think a lot of people have jumped to (0+ / 0-)
the wrong conclusion. It's worse than Ms. Warren selling out. She is being forced to grovel for this position, kiss the hand, so to speak. And it pisses me off, because it's beneath her.

There you have it, Warren praised Geithner not because she meant it, but because she's "groveling" to be ahead of the Consumer Protection Agency.

And all I'm thinking is if she's willing to lie and put aside her true beliefs to get this job, maybe she shouldn't have the job. Some people are soooo desperate to not be proven wrong, they're willing to insult the very people they support to be right or to create the illusion that they're right.

My conservative friends did that to me when I was unemployed. They couldn't admit that people who were unemployed are not so by choice and that jobs aren't easy to come by, that they went so far as to insult ME to back up their point.

And the media lets this happen, because, quite frankly, we've moved one from the type of democracy where we discuss issues, to a Civil War by proxy, a war from 1984. (We've always been at war with Republicans)  And every piece of legislation or news cycle is a battle.  

[ Parent ]
Sent me around the bend (2.00 / 5)
Saw the first post  at Kos and said somebody please show me in this HuffPo piece the corroboration that this is anything, but made up BS ( which is so typical of HuffPo) And the response? But what if it is true? Aaaargh!!!!!!!!
[ Parent ]
You tried to be a voice of reason re: Liz Fowler (2.00 / 5)
to little effect.  Because, somehow, working however briefly at an insurance giant makes one automatically a corporate shill unworthy of ever working in government again.  Nowhere could anyone say why Fowler's work at either Wellpoint or for Baucus disqualified her.  Trying to point that out makes you an apologist because, surely, if Bush had selected Fowler we'd be hollering from the rooftops.
[ Parent ]
Welcome, Big Fog! (2.00 / 7)
I don't know that it is all that bad.  Place it in a historical context and you could say the same thing about most people throughout most cultures.

Our challenge (today as Americans, but also always for all of us) is to both choose to know much and to choose to engage in the process of knowing.  Personally we can see the results of our efforts in that area, and culturally we can do the same.  

We are at an interesting time as a national and global culture in this regards.  All of us have unprecedented access to differing opinions and to those that echo our own.  Whether we on average become canalized and seek out only more of the same opinions and/or whether we on average become flexible and seek out the differing opinions will be the metrics that measure our success.

As may be obvious, I am optimistic about the end result.  Going through phases where less optimal alternatives are exercised and discarded is a healthy process - being wrong can be very right.  There are certainly truths in the concerns you and many others raise, but the fact that you raise them in itself provides me much comfort.

Welcome again and I'm sorry fog iv turned out so poorly... ;~)

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

[ Parent ]
I've been reading this book (2.00 / 8)
and the general sense I get from it is that he really isn't happy. and it sorta ticks me off because I think if his liberal agitaters knew how it really was, they'd have his back.  
Which bits make you think so. (2.00 / 6)
So far anyway, I don't get a sense of unhappiness.  Frustration, certainly, but I get the impression he absolutley relishes the big challenges.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
I'll pick out specific statements a little later (2.00 / 7)
but my general sense is that he moved forward and looked around and saw no one behind him. During the town hall raucus last summer, there were no counterprotests from the left, just a bunch of lefties angry that Obama wasn't battling them himself.

in the meantime, the media mucks things up, and where is Obama's so-called "base," complaining Obama isn't fighting them himself.

In the end, he's a man with no movement behind him and those who should be helping him are instead sitting around waiting for the next sellout, and if there isn't one, they'll make it up.

See the Elizabeth Warren bullshit of the past week.  

[ Parent ]
Oh yeah. (2.00 / 4)
I got that, and I see what you mean now by 'unhappy'.  Still, my impression is that he's undeterred.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
Yeah (2.00 / 3)
I mean he'd naturally not undeterred, if he wasn't, Biden would be President now.

But he's trying to get shit down in a nation of impatient, ungrateful, right-leaning people who don't waver in their opportunity to place a failure label on someone who doesn't instantly satisfy you. I'm 30 years old, I've been labelled a failure more times that I can count.

Because real life doesn't work like the movies, where in the end good always prevails, I think it's possible he could lose reelection because he did too much, he freaked people out, and what he did didn't immediately change the country. (see Clinton's budget too for another example of this type of thing).

And 10 years later, we'll look back and go "shit, why did we throw this man out of office"

[ Parent ]
I think we may be surprised in the not-so-long run. (2.00 / 4)
A lot of people may want "change" but the actuality of it can often be scary; then you have fear mongers making it even worse.  The polling on the health care reform bill has gone up since it's passage largely I'd bet because none of those awful things that were supposed to happen have.

I'd love someone to ask Bachmann where the FEMA re-education camps are.  I'd love someone to ask Grassley when the death panels start convening.  Won't happen, I know, but some people will start noticing they were scared into believing things that weren't true.  Meanwhile, they may notice things getting better.  And go, "hmmm..."

I do think the president needs to get in front of the camera more often.  Too much air time is being ceded to his opponents, including the members of the media.

[ Parent ]
The problem is, even when things get better, they don't (2.00 / 3)
most people think Obama raised their taxes, when he didn't. Most people think we're still losing jobs when we're not.

I wouldn't put it past the American people to believe their premiums are going up when they're actually going down.

We've passed the point where people are living in reality and are acting rational.  

[ Parent ]
The issue with jobs is complex and unfortunately it's not an (2.00 / 4)
issue Dems will have an easy time explaining.  Even while the president was talking about extending the unemployment benefits, which I definitely agree with, I kept wondering what the administration was thinking of in order to get more people back to work.

Real unemployment is a problem; how many people really have just given up?  How many are underemployed?  How many are temporary?  These are issues that the government needs to explain and address.  That wonderful looking chart of job growth is great except to those people who are still unemployed.

[ Parent ]
There's a lot (2.00 / 2)
of employers who can hire and need to hire, but won't because they just plain don't want the Democrats in power and an unemployment crisis will lead to a government more friendly to them.

They use excuses like they're worried about the tax policies of the administration if they stay in power with a liberal Congress or fear the deficit and national debt will turn us into Greece...but business just hates Obama...plain hates him. They won't even take the tax breaks they were given for new hires.

And it doesn't help that the Treasury Dept. issued a report today saying the President's move to save the auto industry increase unemployment because it forced more car dealerships to close than expected.

And dreams of WPAs or CCCs are niece, but the trillions of dollars it would cost to set one up are impossible to get passed in a deficit of this size.

The fact is, there is no realistic plan to increase employment, except to try to get banks to lend again or force businesses to spend their money on jobs...and seeing this is what's radicalizing me into almost a Communist.

Businesses are holding the country hostage. They re not acting in good faith . Now is the time government needs to step in and straighten them out, but that would be Socialism!  

[ Parent ]
Problem is... (2.00 / 4)
...we're in uncharted territory. In the UK our goddam awful coalition government is doing the biggest cuts and tax hikes (mainly affecting the worse off through VAT - indirect sales taxation) just at the moment the private sector is deleveraging heavily.

The result is that while the core money supply has gone up massively (mainly through the Bank of England buying up private sector debt - 'quantative easing') the real money sloshing round the economy has shrunk by 10 percent. From what I gather the same is true in the US.

So despite the stimuli, we're in a deflationary situation, and now the government is reducing it's debt massively, using the Bond Markets as an excuse. Yes, those same bond markets that rated illegal subprime mortgages as triple A.

I'm deeply worried for those economies relying on the Anglo Saxon model. Just as the deregulation shtick has been discredited, out pop the laissez faire ideologues to claim that the problem is government debt.

No government debt is the symptom. The collapse of international private credit was the problem. The state saved high finance casino capitalism, and now the high finance casino capitalists turn around (having been bailed out to a trillion dollars, more than the Korean, Iraq, Vietnam wars, Marshall Plan, Manhattan and Apollo Projects put together, adjusted for inflation) and say...

Now let's cut government. That's the problem

We're heading into uncertain waters, and you've still got the best captain and navigators that were on offer. But the left is idiotically accusing their own side of corporatist betrayal, while the right offers no solutions except less government, more God and stopping immigration.

The rocky ride is going to continue for a long time yet.



Moose Juice; debate without hate

[ Parent ]
If the rocky road contnues (2.00 / 2)
you've still got the best captain and navigators that were on offer.

we won't for long.  

[ Parent ]
Ive heard the charge of not hiring to hurt Obama, I don't buy it. (2.00 / 4)
Busines people hire when they think demand is going up, while a lot of them might not like Obama or the Dems, most would not leave future profits on the table just to hurt Obama.
I think uncertainty is a big part of the issue. And while some business people will claim that the shifting playing field created in part by HCR is the cause of this uncertainty,  most of the problem is they're not certain where the economy is headed. Remember that when credit dries up its the cash poor companies that fail. Blaming Obama's programs are just politicaly convieneint.
[ Parent ]
the problem is (2.00 / 1)
most would not leave future profits on the table just to hurt Obama.

they don't expect him to be around long. They're profiting fine this year and working their employees as far as they can be worked (thereby increasing their own personal frustration) and if they can knock Democrats out of power next year, Obama's agenda will be hamstrung and he'll have to govern like Clinton.

All they want is Obama's agenda (energy, immigration, EFCA) off the table, and tax cuts back on, then their "uncertainty" is gone. They think his agenda is causing economic uncertainty. As of now, the way they see it is all of those things can come to fruition in the next two years if Democrats hold Congress because Obama, Pelosi and Reid have proven to them that even in the face of massive opposition, either popular (HCR) or through well-funded lobbyists (FinReg) they can get shit done and it scares them. He needs to be, as one businessman put it, "dealt with" before they feel certainty.


[ Parent ]
PS/OT: Let's play... (2.00 / 5)
..."Guess Who Said It?"

cherry picking is pretending with super majorities that they didn't have any say so in the matter of what has become of policies and down grading what is possible to fit whatever is required to claim that they lack responsibility for the president economy.

{cue Jeopardy theme music}  

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt

[ Parent ]
sounds like a bruhism (2.00 / 6)
but doesn't use SAT words, I'm disappointed.  
[ Parent ]
Winner, winner, chicken dinner! (2.00 / 5)


It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
....whatever is required to claim and they lack responsibility for the president economy. (2.00 / 4)
Happyness

Without poverty, corruption, injustice, bigotry, stupidity, and inequality good people like us would have absolutely nothing to do. - fogiv
[ Parent ]
fog iv (2.00 / 8)
poorly you say?????  I'm not sure that is how I would classify him.  This is America and everyone should have an opinion.  I would be really distressed if I agreed with pat buchanon.  I am really proud of my number one son and his mental acuity.
heh. (2.00 / 7)
I forgot to tell you how to 'reply'.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
my techno wizardry (2.00 / 8)
I wasn't lying when I said I had never done this before!!
[ Parent ]
Heyyyyyy!!!!! It is truly a pleasure Big Fog! (2.00 / 7)
Your son is awesome.

I'm glad you dropped by!


Without poverty, corruption, injustice, bigotry, stupidity, and inequality good people like us would have absolutely nothing to do. - fogiv

[ Parent ]
You're doing just fine. (2.00 / 7)
If it's too hard to figure out how to use this thing then it isn't your fault, it's ours.  We built it and the Greater We (all geekdom) built this It that we are meandering through, so any inaccurate signage or abstruse iconography is purely the responsibility of the architects.

For the record, we all have the most sincerely bemused love and puzzled heartfelt affection for Little Fog. I am even highly likely to share the same physical space with the archeological wunderkind in the foreseeable future and I am only mildly concerned about serious negative repercussions.

-cheers!

-chris

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

[ Parent ]
Hey, I just realized something! (2.00 / 4)
History is the Fogfather!

g'head, g'head!  Make me an offer I can't refuse!

;~)

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

[ Parent ]
Where the hell is that lurking nerd Kysen? (2.00 / 9)
He usually comes out of lurk mode to welcome all new Moose.

Anyways...

Welcome historyfog!

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Without poverty, corruption, injustice, bigotry, stupidity, and inequality good people like us would have absolutely nothing to do. - fogiv

perfect example... (2.00 / 5)
you've picked there fogiv in every way to expose the sheer absurdity of the tragedy of much to the political establishment (oh and welcome to dad!). i lived in korea in the 90's and i cannot tell you how detached from reality that question would be there either in context of your example or otherwise.

i cannot stress this enough - i mean so removed that perhaps the koreans in the room were probably looking at one other and thinking that these miguk-saram's were from another planet. indeed they would seem to be.

"I spend my days and nights pondering the meaning of life, the state of the universe, and the Home Shopping Network." -- Donald Roller Wilson

I just watched Norah O'Donnell on MSNBC interview Sen. (2.00 / 6)
Barrasso (R-WY) regarding the unemployment extension and the Bush tax cuts.  The initial questions were okay but I guess she's never heard of a follow-up.  When Norah asked Barrasso why it was appropriate to let the unemployment benefits expire but not the tax cuts Barrasso said because "raising taxes" would create more unemployment.  So, of course, Norah asked how, right?  Nope.  She went on to ask a "yes or no" question about whether Barrasso agreed with Kyl that unemployment benefits keep people from looking for jobs.  Naturally, Barrasso skirted around the answer and, of course, Norah didn't press him.  The whole thing was a joke.
[ Parent ]
Great stuff little Fog (2.00 / 7)
And welcome to the Moose Big Daddy Fog.

The Moose is a bit somnolent in the run up to the mid terms. In political cyberspace terms it's in a mild hibernation I suspect, before galloping over the liberal blogosphere come the fall, and munching up information, ideas and the occasional troll.

But where's the next chapter.

I'm waiting Foggettes!

Moose Juice; debate without hate

Coming soon! (2.00 / 5)


It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
I was going to do a separate diary but, since this one is (2.00 / 6)
about the Obama Administration and the media, I figured I'd pop in a comment.

Of course, everyone's heard about the latest kerfuffle: the firing of Shirley Sherrod by Sec. Vilsack based on a video posted by known Conservative blogger and promoted by FNC.

Breithbart has admitted that he was looking for some payback for the NAACP calling elements of the TPE racist.  So he posts a video of a woman speaking at an NAACP function who appears to make some racist remarks.  Of course the video is edited because it goes on to show that Ms. Sherrod realizes her mistake and ends up doing the right thing.

But Vilsack decides to ask Ms. Sherrod to resign based on the video.  There's zero evidence anyone bothered to talk to Ms. Sherrod or anyone who knows her beforehand.  No one bothered to look for an unedited video.  Instead some members of the administration decide to nip the story in the bud and try to show they are on top of things.  Oops!

For an administration that talks like it holds cable news, and FNC in particular in quite low regard, it sure was quick to accept the "truth."  I mean, really, given the whole situation with the NAACP resolution, the attempt to raise the issue of alleged New Black Panther voter intimidation, the history of Breithbart and ACORN who in the Hell would jump that quickly to take anything he had to say seriously.

Gibbs better be prepared at the press briefing.  He needs to take some members of the media to task but he needs to make sure the administration has looked in the mirror, too.

yeah I'm working on a diary on this (2.00 / 5)
The thing is the media took the video as if it were gospel, without questioning it, and ran with it. It was only after it was proven to be false that they decided to start acting like they never believed it in the first place. Morning Joe yesterday was questioning her sincerity. CNN was wondering who else was "racist" in the administration.

It was clear Vilsack or Cook or whoever saw this and said "Oh no, we need to get ahead of this, because no one is going to question this, it's the narrative the media wants" and that's why they pushed her out.

For an administration that talks like it holds cable news, and FNC in particular in quite low regard, it sure was quick to accept the "truth."

I don't think they hold them in low regard, I think they're legitimately afraid of them, especially now, and they should be

I mean, really, given the whole situation with the NAACP resolution, the attempt to raise the issue of alleged New Black Panther voter intimidation, the history of Breithbart and ACORN who in the Hell would jump that quickly to take anything he had to say seriously.

That context is too much for a MSM suffering from scandal withdrawal to understand or even go into. It didn't matter, it was a juicy scoop.

The administration responded the only way they know how, get ahead of an impending narrative, because when the issue is race, they always lose.  

[ Parent ]
But now, based on the little I watched this morning, the meme (2.00 / 3)
is that the administration will toss you overboard in order to save itself; that's coming from the Left and the Right.  Sort of a damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.  The temperate thing to do would have been to say that they are looking into the matter and will make an appropriate decision in the coming days.  As much as many on the Left accused then candidate Obama of dragging his heels during the Rev. Wright thing he ended up looking sane and thoughtful, not reactive and rash.  In the meantime, presumably, the full video would have come out, the Spooners would have been interviewed, and in the end Sherrod would still have her job.

Of course, if we had a responsible media and a public who would turn off Glenn "the president is a racist" Beck maybe we wouldn't be in this position.

[ Parent ]
The truth came out (2.00 / 2)
because she was fired and the media was angry their scandal meme was stopped and needed a new one.

The intellectual dishonesty stemming from the media on this is hysterical since when this broke, everybody was clamoring for her head.

The temperate thing to do would have been to say that they are looking into the matter and will make an appropriate decision in the coming days.  As much as many on the Left accused then candidate Obama of dragging his heels during the Rev. Wright thing he ended up looking sane and thoughtful, not reactive and rash.

you know what, liberals wanted reactive and rash all other times, and they got it.
I don't know if the Rev. Wright fiasco helped him, I think he just barely made it out of that alive. I had an impossible time getting a lot of my friends to vote for him until Sarah Palin/financial collapse happened.

In the meantime, presumably, the full video would have come out, the Spooners would have been interviewed, and in the end Sherrod would still have her jobs

The ACORN videos turned out to be false and it was pretty clear the Van Jones thing was overreaction, but that didn't stop ACORN or Van Jones from eventually being canned. The "there's a racist in Obama's government" meme would be too strong to counter, we'd be talking about Black Panthers and Eric Holder right now, while Rachel Maddow and Jon Stewart desperately tries to get the truth out there.

Part of the reason the media is even giving him a hard time over this is because they're mad he ruined their scandal.

but yeah, damned if you do and damned if you don't. When given a choice of bad options, you pick the least bad one.  

[ Parent ]
I'm not convinced this was the "least bad" option. (2.00 / 2)
Time after time after time the Obama camp has reacted to the media by shitcanning someone when a whiff of controversy hit the air.  It started during the primaries (think Samanatha Power) and continues to this day.  If you believe the reporting Elizabeth Warren may get passed over as head of the CPA because she'd face a tough confirmation.  So fucking what!  Let the Republicans air out their grievances.  She'd be too tough on Wall Street CEOs?  Boo fucking hoo.  Dawn Johnsen was opposed for reasons that had nothing to do with her actual job.  I'll give credit to Obama for nominating her a second time but it really was pointless because it didn't go any further.

How about getting in front of the American people and actually fighting for someone.  Sure most of the FNC crowd aren't going to buy it, but they ain't interested in much Obama has to say anyway.  There sure are a lot of the rest of us who would like to see the administration to go bat more.

And, since I'd already typed this next part before I went back and typed much of the above I'm going to leave it although in some ways it might be somewhat contradictory.

I can say with as much certainty as someone sitting in Burlington, VT with no inside source that I don't believe the White House inner circle was involved in the forced resignation.  It seems likely to me that someone heard there was a story about to break about a "racist in the USDA" and, given that department's history of such things, decided it needed to be nipped in the bud.  At some later point, the president was briefed, and based on the knowledge at the time, chose to back Vilsack.  I'd venture to guess that, when the full tape and the Spooners came forward, Obama then said, "well shit, Tom, you need to rethink the whole firing thing."  By that time the media was in full "we've got a story" mode.

Only now the story was "Obama Administration forces nice lady to resign over edited tape in a pattern all too familiar" instead of "Obama Administration reviewing racist USDA employee."  Frankly, I think most folks, whatever number is actually paying attention to this stuff, would be quite comfortable with the latter (except, of course, for the folks who think Obama is a racist/socialist/communist/fascist/Kenyan/Muslim anyway).  Now, though, you've got many on the Left up in arms over the apparent willingness of the administration to have a knee-jerk reaction to a tape put out by someone they should have known was not to be trusted.  That's the part that sticks in my craw.  Everyone with a functioning brain cell knows you take Breitbart (why I thought there was an "h" in there I don't know) with a huuuuuuge grain of salt.

I also heard Norah (she has an "h" in her name, doesn't she?) make the claim that they didn't run with the story yesterday until the NAACP and the USDA had condemned Sherrod.  Lets MSNBC off the hook rather nicely.

The End

[ Parent ]
Well I think the left things it's a bigger group (2.00 / 2)
it's not, I think this was the least bad option, because those who think he's a racist/socialist/communist/Kenyan/Muslim are a bigger group than those who care if he fights for someone. The reason they shitcan people is, to be brutally honest, that people are expendable. He's not going to take a dive for anyone in particular. Does this make them look weak? not loyal? I don't know, but that's how he is. I would sorta agree. You fight for issues, not for people. I'm sorta the same way. I don't have any loyalty to anyone. Part of them is my personal issues of seeing people I love burn me. Maybe he has the same problem.

Sure most of the FNC crowd aren't going to buy it, but they ain't interested in much Obama has to say anyway

There's a lot more than just the FNC crowd who would buy it. A lot more. I often say how hard it was to convince a lot of my friends and family to vote for Obama after he beat Hillary, because of their inherit racism. It was Sarah Palin/financial crisis that finally got them to swallow their pride and vote for him. Now they jump on every whiff of evidence that he's some sort of Al Sharpton puppet. There are a lot of these people. This is what makes him so jittery on the race issue. He lost a lot of them after the Gates fiasco. They still bring it up to me a lot. "He hates cops, etc."

If you believe the reporting Elizabeth Warren may get passed over as head of the CPA because she'd face a tough confirmation.  So fucking what!  Let the Republicans air out their grievances.  She'd be too tough on Wall Street CEOs?  Boo fucking hoo.

"There isn't anyone else who can do this job Mr. President, just the darling of the radical left?" That's a message that sells Independents, who think "Why does it have to be her? I want someone strong, but clearly there's something suspect about her if she can't get confirmed!"

Everyone with a functioning brain cell knows you take Breitbart (why I thought there was an "h" in there I don't know) with a huuuuuuge grain of salt.

while the othe 80% of the country on the other hand...

[ Parent ]
Oy. The CPA was Warren't idea in the first place. (2.00 / 1)
She's a perfectly logical choice to head it.  And maybe, just maybe once, the president could try explaining that to us instead of giving up or giving in.

The dude looks good in front of a camera; he can be quite persuasive.  He got 57% of the popular vote, including some who would call him n*gger behind his back.

I do think the Left is putting too much emphasis on Warren, though.  There are other qualified candidates I'm sure but if Obama decides to go with someone else ... I'll be taking a break from the Internets.

Lastly, we know you've got odd friends.  I'd say you need to expand your horizons but you live in NYC.

[ Parent ]
Logic is not an American virture. (2.00 / 1)
She's a perfectly logical choice to head it.  And maybe, just maybe once, the president could try explaining that to us

he tries to explain a lot of shit to us, but the message gets lost in the scandal-hungry media and reruns of The Bachelorette.

The dude looks good in front of a camera; he can be quite persuasive.

which is why when he's in front of a camera, the media cuts to Lindsay Lohan or asks him about some obscure incident that may or may not be racially motivated.

He got 57% of the popular vote

53%

Lastly, we know you've got odd friends.

Reagan Democrats...people who are liberal, but also are or descend from those who fled the city in fear when dark people started moving into their neighborhoods (see: white flight)

[ Parent ]
Also, this (0.00 / 0)
I also heard Norah (she has an "h" in her name, doesn't she?) make the claim that they didn't run with the story yesterday until the NAACP and the USDA had condemned Sherrod.  Lets MSNBC off the hook rather nicely.

is a complete lie...sure, the media is trying to exonorate itself from responsibility, in part becasue Gibbs called them out today. They can get away with it because people will believe it.

[ Parent ]
That was kind of my maybe poorly made point. (0.00 / 0)
The administration, surely by accident, gave the media an out.  If the administration and/or the NAACP hadn't reacted so quickly in condemning Sherrod the more reasonable news networks wouldn't have reported it.

Alot of people aren't going to remember the chronology.  But stuff like what Norah said makes sense and she was soooo sincere.

[ Parent ]
meh (0.00 / 0)
more reasonable news networks wouldn't have reported it.

the news of her firing didn't hit until shortly after 9am yesterday. Morning Joe was all over it as early as 6:30, asking "when will she be fired?"

he may have given them an out, but it really doesn't matter, because if he didn't, they'd still be sticking by Breitbart's story and calling the guy a hero and running their Shirley Sherrod death watch and poor Rachel Maddow would be deseperately trying to show that it's all a lie.

[ Parent ]
All I can say is I hope to Hell I never become as jaded as (2.00 / 1)
you already are.

I have much more faith in the American people than you seem to.  Maybe we're just the naive ying and the cynical yang.

[ Parent ]
They've rarely given me a reason to believe in them (0.00 / 0)
and when they did, they quickly show their true selves again right away.  
[ Parent ]
the real head scratcher for me... (2.00 / 3)
...in the whole story is the NAACP's quick condemnation. I won't excuse the rash actions of the adminstration (and I seriously doubt that Obama himself was briefed about her termination before the desision was made by Vilsack), but I can at least undertand it. The hair trigger of the NAACP is a little baffling to me, even after the recent junk with the tea parry call-out.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
Yep, that seems strange to me, too. (2.00 / 2)
The other thing that is missing is that Sherrod was, apparently, a political appointment not a "simple" staffer.  So, it would seem that someone had done some checking into her record and found her quite acceptable.  Yet, based on a very short, obviously incomplete video, she's told to pack up.
[ Parent ]
holy shit (2.00 / 1)
can I make more freaking typos.  god, that's awful.  sorry.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
Hoarders (2.00 / 5)
(You did say meandering discussion)

What President Obama inherited when he took office reminds me of the show Hoarders.

You are tasked with cleaning up someone's house only to discover that the house is literally bulging at the seams with the sheer volume of the "clutter".  No worries though, because you have a team of people capable of cleaning up a mess that size in a fairly short time.  But there's a wrinkle:  the hoarder is present and has a say in everything that is removed from the house.  The hoarder resists efforts every step of the way, gets highly emotional over his beer can collection/her old clothes, etc. and has to be cajoled and co-erced to remove even 25% of the mess.

Anybody else see the similarity?  Every government agency was malfunctioning, all industries had been deregulated, oversight was non-existent, yet the mess still had to be cleaned up.

Yep. (2.00 / 4)
And bystanders on all sides shouting about not getting enough out of the house or getting too much.

Politics is a mess.  Period.  You can't clear the land and lay a new foundation, you pick up with whatever state all the moving parts were in.  Every President does.

He's gotten some things done that he said he would, our general situation in many ways is much better than it was in 2008, and we don't all have the flu.  Not much more you can measure a president by...

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

[ Parent ]
A list of things the president and/or Congress has done this week... (2.00 / 3)
http://www.boomantribune.com/s...

how much have you heard about?

[ Parent ]
That's why this Shirley Sherrod thing happened btw (2.00 / 3)
Breitbart and Fox News knew, no matter what, a racial issue would suck up all the air this week. There was no way to avoid it.

The lesson in this is there's nothing the President can do to stop a shitstorm from a powerful media.  

[ Parent ]
heh. Breitbart and FNC got a mighty fine assist from the (2.00 / 3)
Lefty blogosphere as well.  Because we like outrage, too.
[ Parent ]
They always do (2.00 / 2)
the blogsphere seems to forget that last year, when the administration said Fox News wasn't really news, remember when Axelrod said that last October, the response from the blogsphere was "Why are you responding to them? Why are you getting into a fight with them? Stop calling attention to them"

and now they want him to fight them.

They don't know wtf they want. They just want to bitch

[ Parent ]
Two more things. (2.00 / 4)
@historyfog --  Hi newbie!  Your son has been doing you proud in the blogosphere.

@fogiv -- Your diary (with photo) makes me want to give our President a hug. ;)

Aww shucks. :) (2.00 / 2)


It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
jeebus (2.00 / 4)
frakking geithner derrangement syndrome, look at this thread:

http://www.dailykos.com/commen...

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt

I read the diary and left. (2.00 / 3)
I haven't signed in to Daily Kos in weeks if not months because nothing moves me to comment anymore.  I think Warren would be fabulous in that position but I think it's a shame that the anti-Geithner thing was deemed necessary by the diarist.  Reminds me of how the anti-Rahm faction felt the need to include him in the health care reform diaries because the diarists thought it would drive action by the readers.  I guess it did that but it turned a lot of people off, too.
[ Parent ]
I made the mistake of wandering to Huffington Post a few minutes (2.00 / 4)
ago while waiting for the Royals/Yankees game to end.  Geithner says wonderful things about Warren, including how the consumer protection agency was her idea and she's a terrfic person, but the headline is that "Geithner refuses to endorse Warren to head consumer protection agency."  I left.
[ Parent ]
it's completely fucking insane. (2.00 / 5)
there's pushing the same stoopid shit:

...the Huffington Post reported last week that according to one unnamed source, Geithner has privately expressed his opposition to her nomination.

Geithner on Thursday said the leader of the agency should bring credibility and "fresh perspective" to the job. And he called Warren "one of the most effective advocates for reform in the country." He acknowledged her role as a champion of those who "view the system as fundamentally broken."

Nevertheless, it seems likely that the only way Warren will get the job is if Geithner is overruled.

So based on all this positive shit he said, it seems he doesn't mean it.  Same logic, different details:

...the Huffington Post reported last week that according to one unnamed source, Geithner spent most of his youth raping dragons.

Geithner on Thursday said the leader of the Dragon protection agency should bring credibility and "fresh perspective" to the job. And he called Warren "one of the most effective advocates for Dragons in the country." He acknowledged her role as a champion of those who "view the system as fundamentally broken."

Nevertheless, it seems likely that the only way Warren will get the job is if Geithner is himself eaten by a dragon.



It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt

[ Parent ]
Unicorn porn... (2.00 / 4)
...and now Dragon Rape.

I love your analogies, little Fog, but don't repeat in front of your shrink. Or maybe do. Because I'm sure there's a new DSMV category here... Fantasophilia: inappropriate sexual fantasies about fantasy creatures.

Moose Juice; debate without hate

[ Parent ]
Yep. They broke the mold when they made me. (2.00 / 3)
On purpose.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
heh. Shrink, Hell. (2.00 / 4)
Big Fog posts here now, too.
[ Parent ]
lulz (2.00 / 3)
you should hear him when he gets going!

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
Regarding the meander.. (2.00 / 5)
 Vilsack or his office fucked up. Reacted to quickly trying to remove a distraction from the Presidents agenda.
Everyone's apologized, move on.
Yes Fox was creating an narrative, and Gibbs did not call them out yesterday. I seem to remember Obama being lampooned and critizied the last time he critizied Fox by name. He was giving too much "prestige" to Fox, or lowering the office, etc.etc.
Now, Sherrod wants to speak to the President about the south, is doing the morning talk shows, and while seeming to accept apologys, doesn't want her job back. Whats next, a book deal or a lawsuit? Maybe a lecture tour for 4 or 5 figures a pop.
At some point somone might need to tell her to get over it or get over herself. (Wow did I say that outloud. Am I without any empathy?)
heh. (2.00 / 4)
I thought the same thing about the round of interviews Ms. Sherrod has been giving.  On one hand I'm glad she's been given access to tell her side of the story but, man o man, she's been all over the place.  It's beginning to look like a bit of milking the situation.
[ Parent ]
Dispatches from 'The Promise': Media Edition | 70 comments
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